Honda TRX250R Forums banner
Cancel
Create thread New Forums

Check out this W-Tec Eraser (CR500 Powered...) SICK!

Jump to Latest
29K views 92 replies 18 participants last post by  offroadracer  
#1 ·
W-Tec's are really popular in Europe racing scenes... (super light)







 
#32 ·
Awesome ikas glad you joined the site!! Lots of curiosity on the W-Tec, hopefully you can help answer some questions regarding its construction. That lightweight frame with a KX500 will be a beast! How does the W-Tec frame get away with all of these large single 2 strokes without vibrating it too pieces? These same motors in a 250r frame vibrate like crazy... Post up a link to you build or start on here!

When you going to bring this bike state-side so I can ride it... LOL! :D :D

Did you mention Laeger Narrow?

Here's mine: Laeger Narrow front, CR500 Linkage rear, 496CC Saber Motor... all custom. This is my version of a TRX500R..

 
I
#37 ·
troybilt said:
Awesome ikas glad you joined the site!! Lots of curiosity on the W-Tec, hopefully you can help answer some questions regarding its construction. That lightweight frame with a KX500 will be a beast! How does the W-Tec frame get away with all of these large single 2 strokes without vibrating it too pieces? These same motors in a 250r frame vibrate like crazy... Post up a link to you build or start on here!
Click to expand...
I will try and answer all the questions I can.
For vibrations I will use the stock anti vibe stem a fasst flexx handle bar vith anti vide inserts and I will ballance the crank. If the vibrations is to intense I will build a gokart with the kx engine and go back to the counterbalanced gasgas engine.


troybilt said:
When you going to bring this bike state-side so I can ride it... LOL! :D :D
Click to expand...
Will try to make it happen ;)

troybilt said:
Did you mention Laeger Narrow?

Here's mine: Laeger Narrow front, CR500 Linkage rear, 496CC Saber Motor... all custom. This is my version of a TRX500R..
Click to expand...
That build is nice! Followed it before on atvriders when you were building it like a elsinore replica.
 
#46 ·
troybilt said:
Fred, check out these juxtaposed aarms... (when you going to do a build up on that desert sled? :D)

Click to expand...
no,I have not seen this.It is not exactly what I had imagined. it looks like the shock angle is way wrong. as far as my desert sled goes ,its in pieces .every time I think Iwill get goin again ,one of my four boys cost me a ton of money for something
 
M
#36 · (Edited)
Troy, several months ago there was a Dean Sundahl framed banshee with that style of a arms on it at Sandtrax here in Tulsa. It had 18" of travel both front and rear and also got setup for dual LED lights(one on the frame and the other on the bars). It was cool as h_ll and looked like it would eat up some serious whoops. I don't normally care for banshees(used to have one) but this one was different LOL. Cool pics BTW. Pretty rare to see a banshee with his frame and A arms and even more rare to see a R with them. I never knew that Dean made an R frame with his A arm's. That's the 1st one I've EVER seen. After looking closer I guess it's not really a R(looks like a banshee radiator and I see the oil tank for a fourstroke I'm guessing). It's still cool and looks better with the R plastic instead of banshee plastic.
 
#41 ·
mennis1971 said:
Troy, several months ago there was a Dean Sundahl framed banshee with that style of a arms on it at Sandtrax here in Tulsa. It had 18" of travel both front and rear and also got setup for dual LED lights(one on the frame and the other on the bars). It was cool as h_ll and looked like it would eat up some serious whoops. I don't normally care for banshees(used to have one) but this one was different LOL. Cool pics BTW. Pretty rare to see a banshee with his frame and A arms and even more rare to see a R with them. I never knew that Dean made an R frame with his A arm's. That's the 1st one I've EVER seen. After looking closer I guess it's not really a R(looks like a banshee radiator and I see the oil tank for a fourstroke I'm guessing). It's still cool and looks better with the R plastic instead of banshee plastic.
Click to expand...
Dennis, yes I've seen a banshee, not sure if its the same one. I have pics of it somewhere. I think it was green and black if I remember correctly. There was another in DW not too long ago, 3-4 years athat was blue and grey. Similar setup.
 
#39 ·
yes troy. instant center of rotation; in this specific application its our "roll center" that is needing comparison of the two suspension types.

troy, will you be using finite element analysis in your frame/chassis design?

the sundahl suspension is unique. it seems more for high speed straight line stuff. there is alot of mass to deal with. it would definitely need some work to make it balanced.

john
 
#44 ·
jcs003 said:
yes troy. instant center of rotation; in this specific application its our "roll center" that is needing comparison of the two suspension types.

troy, will you be using finite element analysis in your frame/chassis design?

the sundahl suspension is unique. it seems more for high speed straight line stuff. there is alot of mass to deal with. it would definitely need some work to make it balanced.

john
Click to expand...
Yes I will be using FEA, I also have my own personal SoMat field computer for data aquisition, (hand-me-down, from work...LOL!) so I can directly measure the stress at the weld toe and correlate that to a fatigue estimate. I plan on building a rear grab bar that I can mount the SoMat too and record real-time data and feed that into my laptop.. As far as, FEA, I only personally have access to ProMechanica, which is marginal at best. Really need to use IDEAS or Ansys for more acurate FEA.
 
#40 ·
W-tec's tie rods travel in a different arc than spindle. They are quite long though which should reduce bumpsteer. I wonder if a rear swing arm that had the bearings outboard of the sprocket/brake hub would provid a more direct path for loads into the dual shocks.
 
I
#51 · (Edited)
Forgot to mention that the spindles and tierods were changed on the 2009 frame to make it easier to steer. And they are lighter with the the cast aluminium then the welded 25crmo4 steel. And the brake calipers were changed in the front, I think they used two two pot calipers instead of two four pot calipers but not sure. The position on the rear caliper was also changed.
 
#52 ·
The W-Tec is aimed at the deep ruted sand tracks of Belguim,Holland and Northern France and has had a lot of success in the endurance race scene as well as mx over the last decade. On the Hard pack tracks it doesn't have such an advantage . They can be ordered with the Zabel 2 stroke which is generally 800cc 4 speed or also popular big bore ktm 4 stroke.
 
M
#55 ·
Troy and everyone, the banshee I saw was green(never got to see the plastic for it) and had the flat top A arm like the pics that were posted on the bansheehq link. It had a true spindle though instead of just the flat meal plates like in those pics. I don't imagine they handle to well as they were designed for desert racing and hitting whoops and stuff at high speeds in a straight line(pretty much). Ikas I forgot to mention the zabel and I'm glad you brought that up. It's another 2 stroke monster motor. It's interesting that you say it doesn't handle bad at all on hardpack. I'm not surprised personally, especially after seeing some vids of them. Those guys were hauling @ss and catching some major air too. I just wonder how well they hold up to abuse and how much maintenance the front end requires. Keep us posted please. That's an awesome build your doing.
 
#56 ·
The Zabel motor is an interesting piece. I've done some research on it, from what I know. One of the engineers from Maico went out and started their own company if I remember right. I was looking at a zabel motor a couple years ago. I even joined the sidecar motorcross forum... hehe....

Not long after that I found a video of a Maico 700, it was a 2010 model I believe in Dubai. I couldn't believe how much torque that thing had... the dude was idling around in 4 or 5th gear and then hammer it... It was a smooth of 2 stroke I've heard. I've looked several times since then and could not find that youtube video anywhere...
 
#57 ·
Fred, I wonder by looking at the upper control link, that it could also be setup to have some postive camber tracking thru the articulation. It seems to be set just a shade off to the center which would be a shorter arc path. This would tend to give it more camber thru its travel.

I'd like to find a chassis somewhere and do more research on it.

I think for desert racing this suspension could be setup killer, with more ground clearance for the silt beds. This design doesn't have he same limitations on aarms length for suspension travel. Theoretically you mount the lower aarm back by the foot peg if you wanted too, lol!
 
#60 ·
Im with you on this,I would love to swing it thru its travel without the shocks,just to see what it does do. Im not sure but it looks like the lower attch.for the spindle isn't on a ball joint.it almost has to be a swing joint (only moves forward and backwards) I was thinking that the upper links frame mounting point would be placed were the caster would stay the same thru out the travel. these two things make me believe that the camber doesn't change .believe it or not Im allways looking to prove that my way of thinking could be wrong and would never be offended by someone else helping me do that.troy you treat people with great respect,and I admire you for this,but in my case feel free to tell me Im jacked up
 
#61 ·
fearlessfred said:
Im not sure but it looks like the lower attch.for the spindle isn't on a ball joint.it almost has to be a swing joint (only moves forward and backwards) I was thinking that the upper links frame mounting point would be placed were the caster would stay the same thru out the travel. these two things make me believe that the camber doesn't change
Click to expand...
Went back and looked again, I think you're right its just a pivot joint not a ball joint, so the camber would follow a single path and not change, so it would depending on what angle that is setup at from intial design. I was thinking it was a lower ball joint like we use. If so, then you could use an extra control links to control camber, thru its articulation. This could be an improvement on this existing design. But that ball joint would need to be hell-for-stout.
 
#68 ·
At this point,Im just have to agree with you that it could be done.It seems like you would be adding a whole bunch of unsprung weight.what I know about multilinks is limited to the 3 and 4 links with solid rear axle.I gotta get off this pc and go put seat covers on the seadoos ( something to keep the wife from being pissed at me )
 
#71 ·
I don't know if you're seen 4 link front suspension, but its interesting in that if you look at the vehicle from the top. When you turn one direction or the other the inside wheel actually moves forward and the outside wheel moves backwards, slightly. Which in a motorcross quad enviroment, I don't know if that would help or hinder handling, it helps in F1 and I could see TT type riding. An F1 car can hold 6G's of lateral acceleration...
 
#72 ·
What I mean by extremely difficult to analysis... consider this.

4 link suspension

link 1, length
link 2, length
link 3, length
link 4, length

link 1 end 1 position X
link 1 end 1 position y
link 1 end 2 position X
link 1 end 2 position Y

and so...

and if you vary each of those say 20mm in each directions and use 10 iterations per variable, you get something in the order of 10^20 iterations which can stop a computer dead in its tracks... LOL!
 
#79 ·
Sorry, for the comments... I was just trying to point out the complexity to design a multi link and why we don't see them much... I was just thinking that if I made the changes to the W-Tec design, it would really be a 4 link and totally different... My bad guys!! I was in a hurry and kind of rambling incoherently!
 
#86 ·
I got it man. You are correct. The possibility's are endless.
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
Honda TRX250R Forums
posts
287K
members
14K
Since
2007
A forum community dedicated to Honda TRX250R owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about performance, modifications, builds, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
General TRX250R Discussions Engine and Transmission Quads & Parts For Sale New Member Introductions General Member Classifieds