[acecarlos]

Ive been at my builders house at 11pm machining parts for our motors because of my mishap, before to keep my planned dune ride that i flew 6000 miles to go on. There are other builders who take care of people in the same manner.

Its good that the customer is getting treated well, Its the Kinda thing we should hear more of in our industry honestly.

Metal fatigue is something that happens, but there is always a cause whether we can see it with our eyes or not is another story, talking to a few people who have had these issue before it likely has to do with when torqued down they are not flat.

i was throwing around the idea of a crush washer to help with this but not really sure.

Glad to see a few others practice good customer support, however; with all due respect..."been at my builders house at 11 pm machining parts for our motors" is not in the same league as replacing a customers engine complete, testing it, and shipping it out within 48 hours of having been contacted by the customer. All the while, the replacement engine we sent Michael was built, assembled and almost finished before we ever saw Michael's engine return to BDTM or even determined the cause of the stud failure...still don't really know why the stud failed. Not a fair statement to make when you say "in the same manner"...WAY different situation, WAY more work and expense for BDTM and one that cost BDTM quite a lot of money to keep Michael from missing his Memorial Day trip. Carlos

 

[RIDE-RED 350r]

Some people/businesses talk the talk, others walk the walk.... Tip 'O the hat to you Carlos! Regardless of what some may say, that is customer service above and beyond, the likes of which I have never experienced first hand.

The previous statement is in no way directed in a negative manner toward any member or business represented here on 250r.net! Just talking about businesses/people in general.

 

[sdyme1995]

Didn't see if this was answered or not, but were the nuts ever re-torqued after it was all brought up to temp. Before or after the engine left BDTM.

Nice customer service as well.

 

[acecarlos]

Didn't see if this was answered or not, but were the nuts ever re-torqued after it was all brought up to temp. Before or after the engine left BDTM.

Nice customer service as well.

This is not our first engine build, and setting all nuts and bolts to factory torque spec is done on all our engine builds, OEM 250CC to BB Sabers. I am sure Michael checked the nuts after the run-in period, and certainly he will this time around as I have asked him to do. Plus; we ran the new engine for almost two tanks of fuel this time around, testing some of our BDTM WURKS Sphynx pipes, and check the nuts after and found none to have come loose or changed torque value more than 2-3 pounds. Carlos

 

[mickkey82984]

Didn't see if this was answered or not, but were the nuts ever re-torqued after it was all brought up to temp. Before or after the engine left BDTM.

Nice customer service as well.

Got motor today, looks great fired first kick. Thanks for everything Carlos. I don't have torque wrench so didn't torque to spec but did check to see if they were tight but that was fist weekend, weekend it broke I didn't check again. Going to check them before every ride from know on.

 

[douglas]

..."been at my builders house at 11 pm machining parts for our motors" is not in the same league as replacing a customers engine complete, testing it, and shipping it out within 48 hours of having been contacted by the customer. All the while, the replacement engine we sent Michael was built, assembled and almost finished before we ever saw Michael's engine return to BDTM or even determined the cause of the stud failure...still don't really know why the stud failed. Not a fair statement to make when you say "in the same manner"...WAY different situation, WAY more work and expense for BDTM and one that cost BDTM quite a lot of money to keep Michael from missing his Memorial Day trip. Carlos

At this point now you are killing it. Its awesome that you went the extra step. We are all glad to see that and it is clear. OK don't need to push the pat on the back

 

[motofool250r]

..."been at my builders house at 11 pm machining parts for our motors" is not in the same league as replacing a customers engine complete, testing it, and shipping it out within 48 hours of having been contacted by the customer. All the while, the replacement engine we sent Michael was built, assembled and almost finished before we ever saw Michael's engine return to BDTM or even determined the cause of the stud failure...still don't really know why the stud failed. Not a fair statement to make when you say "in the same manner"...WAY different situation, WAY more work and expense for BDTM and one that cost BDTM quite a lot of money to keep Michael from missing his Memorial Day trip. Carlos

At this point now you are killing it. Its awesome that you went the extra step. We are all glad to see that and it is clear. OK don't need to push the pat on the back

I agree Doug i didn't try to say anyone did better then BDT, just the persona that BDT is the only one that helps there customers out to meet a big race/ride is untrue.

i would say something on this stud issue is likely to do with the fact we cant get torque wrenches on them(sockets) from the top.

 

[motofool250r]

This is not our first engine build, and setting all nuts and bolts to factory torque spec is done on all our engine builds, OEM 250CC to BB Sabers. I am sure Michael checked the nuts after the run-in period, and certainly he will this time around as I have asked him to do. Plus; we ran the new engine for almost two tanks of fuel this time around, testing some of our BDTM WURKS Sphynx pipes, and check the nuts after and found none to have come loose or changed torque value more than 2-3 pounds. Carlos

so what kind of adaptor are you using to get a torque wrench on the front stud nuts, ive been looking into the wrench adaptors for clicker and beam type torque wrenches to find a reasonable solution to torqueing them but i have not found a 12 point one care to elaborate?

i planned to have my own machined if i have to but if there is one to buy with data for torque rating im down

 

[t8r6x]

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/objects_lg/images/FRDH101.jpg

Moto, this is what Iuse and i use a angle calculator so i get the torque right

 

[motofool250r]

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/objects_lg/images/FRDH101.jpg

Moto, this is what Iuse and i use a angle calculator so i get the torque right

Nice, this will work good on the Puma studs the oem ones need a 6 point might just swap out the nuts for some 12 points

 

[t8r6x]

That's what I did before I went to my 350 its the only thing I've found that's worked and I already had them for my work

 

[udontknowme]

motion pro, matco and aparently snapon all make the adaptor extensions. theyre a must have for anybody that does theyre own engine work. unless your a hack and just tighten by feel with a box end wrench. i never had a stud break but if i did i would look into a higher qaulity stud and/or increase the stud size.

 

[acecarlos]

so what kind of adaptor are you using to get a torque wrench on the front stud nuts, ive been looking into the wrench adaptors for clicker and beam type torque wrenches to find a reasonable solution to torqueing them but i have not found a 12 point one care to elaborate?

i planned to have my own machined if i have to but if there is one to buy with data for torque rating im down

Nice, this will work good on the Puma studs the oem ones need a 6 point might just swap out the nuts for some 12 points

That's what I did before I went to my 350 its the only thing I've found that's worked and I already had them for my work

We made our own wrenches a long time ago....not just for Torquing the nuts down properly, also we designed our wrench to make assessing the nuts in the front cylider cavities much easier....our wrenches are Heat Treated thin steel for easier access and more arc movement when loosening or tightening, as well as setting tthe proper Torque.

Carlos

 

[okbeast]

We made our own wrenches a long time ago....not just for Torquing the nuts down properly, also we designed our wrench to make assessing the nuts in the front cylider cavities much easier....our wrenches are Heat Treated thin steel for easier access and more arc movement when loosening or tightening, as well as setting tthe proper Torque.

Carlos

Most banshee guys with Cub cylinders do this too. All you gotta do is get your 12mm wrench and a bench grinder!

 

[motofool250r]

Most banshee guys with Cub cylinders do this too. All you gotta do is get your 12mm wrench and a bench grinder!

my 14mm wrench for the stock nuts is ground down like crazy but you cant use that with your torque wrench unless you have an adaptor like snap on makes above then there is a calculation on top of that to figure out the torque value as you just made the leverage ratio higher.

this was the root of my first question in the thread, if it was retorqued was it over torqued, not torques etc.

I know im guilty of tightening them down with regular wrenches to good Ole that feels tight but maybe thats the problem is were not torqueing them to the right value

 

[acecarlos]

We use a beam wrench we made that is very thin and about half the height of the Snap On wrench shown, as anyone that builds these type of engines knows, most wrenches will not work or fit well, a good example is the Motion Pro series...does not fit the small cykinder front bolt cavities.

Our thin Heat Treated wrench fits better than any other wrench we ever found, that is why we designed it very thin and made it. The Heat Treat gives it the strength needed to be as thin as it is and fit into the tight places it does....we never intended to sell these, and are not planning to do so now, we made it out of necessity.

Properly torquing the base and cylinder bolts is not an issue for BDTM....

Carlos

 

[udontknowme]

motion pro is pretty thin. i dont see why it wouldnt work, maybe grind it down alittle if need be. but of course youll have more bragging rights if you make your own wrench

 

[okbeast]

I know im guilty of tightening them down with regular wrenches to good Ole that feels tight but maybe thats the problem is were not torqueing them to the right value

I would guess 90% of DIY guys working on stuff at home don't properly torque them down either. I haven't heard of this issue much on the Banshees, and I haven't been around the 250Rs long enough.

 

[sdyme1995]

And if you do use an adapter like shown above, the torque value changes.

 

[acecarlos]

motion pro is pretty thin. i dont see why it wouldnt work, maybe grind it down alittle if need be. but of course youll have more bragging rights if you make your own wrench

Two problems with the Motion Pro wrench and similar wrenches, one they are not 'thin' enough and If ground down thinner they are not strong enough and eventually break. Second, they are not 12 point wrenches like the Nuts are that are used in the Sphynx, Puma and Saber. One of the reasons 12 point nuts and wrenches are used in these cylinders is because the regular nuts hardly fit the two front nut cavity pockets, and with a 12 point it is much easier to turn and Torque the nut down properly.

If you have not built these type of cylinders & engines, all of this is foreign to your ears, and don't understand the intricacies of these builds. You can call it "bragging rights" if you like, however; making our own special wrench makes life much easier, it is part of building these type of cylinders.

Carlos