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Discussion Starter #1
I was talking to an engineering friend about what it would take to reverse engineer/produce discontinued parts and it got into a debate about whether it would be worth it and that even if the 250R came back into production it wouldn't sell very well in today's market.

So I'm just wondering what people think - if the 250R were to come back into production (or a 2stroke race quad for that matter) A: would it sell ? Considering there are 6 other race quads (all 4 stroke)
B: What would be the ideal setup - CC, powervalve, no powervalve, suspension,
digital oil injection? Something complety new and technologically advanced?

I know we are all 2-stroke 250R riders but try to be objective. If you had never ridden or owned one as well as owning one what you would fix/change think of that.
 

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Im not sure how well a modern two stroke would do. 4 strokes are pretty popular, BUT I think lots of people are sick of the 4 stroke expense. The other downside to a two stroke is the liberals are always trying to ban them, and are gaining ground.

There are certainly lots of improvements that could be made. The 250R engine is over 20years outdated. There are much lighter and much more powerful engines. The 250R frame is still top notch.

KTM needs to put their 300XC engine in a quad.
 

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If I were to build a new 2 stroke quad from scratch, I would look into the KTM engines. They even have an electric start 2 stroke now.

I don't think sales would be that great on a new production 2 stroke. Look at the service honda CR250/ex hybrid and the gas gas 300. I don't think they have sold very many. The majority of today's buyers want the easy to ride 4 stroke power, electric start and all the goodies that make them dumby proof.
 

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I know a guy who's an editor for ATV Insider magazine. He is absolutly convinced that a new 2-stroke quad is on the horizon. He predicts within 5 years. He also says look for it to come from Can-Am, in big-bore format, using thier digital fuel and oil injection systems found on thier watercraft and snomobiles. Sounds pretty outlandish, I know, but I trust him for many reasons. His and his "sources" reasoning was that same as already stated. People are already tired of the expense of the 4-strokes. A top end isn't lasting any longer than a typical 2-stroke, and it costs 4 times as much to re-do. This, coupled with the advances in fuel/oil injection systems for a more efficient, cleaner burning engine. And you know how the manufacturers would love to completely change technologies on us again...forcing all of us to spend more money to stay competetive.

My opinion...I could see it. But I think a new R would have some major engine advancements to go through.
 

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My opinion...I could see it. But I think a new R would have some major engine advancements to go through.


not necesserily the engine changes but the ignition and fuel delivery, coupled with a computer and a means to cut down on the emisions a bit. B)
 

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Those tree huggers would still be complaining about it even if it produced no carbonmanoxside.
They are such idiots they think they are going to keep GOD from taking the world when he comes back, or so you would think.

I been thinking about having some big bumper stickers made just for those tree huggers on our highways.
Mr or Mrs TREE HUGGER,
if you are so intent on SAVING GAS & OIL, then you should have stayed at home & you wouldnt be using up any.
Neil
 

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I would not be surprises if can-am made a two stroke. their 2-tec outboards are very clean and very fast..as are their sleds. Also KTM has said its committed to 2 strokes and has direct injection systems in development. Whether it makes it into a quad or even the U.S. is another matter.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't see why they couldn't make a 2-stroke quad that has low emmisions and is more fuel efficient if they have alread accomplished it in the outboards. I would think it would be as easy as redesigning it to fit into a quad chassis. The technology is there. Could you imagine how light the new DS450 would be with a 2-stroke.

The question still remains though - would everybody come back? What CC would be allowed - I mean if they came out with a 450CC 2-stroke it would smoke the 4-strokes.

The other question - as far as Dirtbikes - would they redesign the tracks back to fit 2-strokes. I've heard the AMA has unilateraly started redesigning motocross and supercross tracks for 4 strokes because the power and jumping characteristics are different.
 

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I would like to say first that, I think that the decison from honda to quit making the 250R after only 4 years of production was the dumbest decison. If they would have produced it as long as the Banshee imagine what kind of knew inovations honda would have come up with, shit it could have started a trend much like the 450s have started, where all the major factories put alot of time and money into. We could have seen some cool 250s.
But
 

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I would like to say first that, I think that the decison from honda to quit making the 250R after only 4 years of production was the dumbest decison. If they would have produced it as long as the Banshee imagine what kind of knew inovations honda would have come up with, shit it could have started a trend much like the 450s have started, where all the major factories put alot of time and money into. We could have seen some cool 250s.
But that
 

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I would like to say first that, I think that the decison from honda to quit making the 250R after only 4 years of production was the dumbest decison. If they would have produced it as long as the Banshee imagine what kind of knew inovations honda would have come up with, shit it could have started a trend much like the 450s have started, where all the major factories put alot of time and money into. We could have seen some cool 250s.
But that day has gone and i think that with the knew 450's, power is going to be the key. A larger bore, like 250Renvy said would be awesome. Then with a powervalve added on, and an advanced fuel injection"if they could figure out a way to make it work" would sure boost it up into 4 Joke contention.
I know i might buy one if anyone produced a two stroke again. Even if it was from Can Am.
 

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When the can-Am 450 was announced what almost a year and a half ago I heard they are working on a 2 stroke motor for it on the dootalk forum. All I have to say is I own ski-doo sleds great power plants made by brp and keep this in mind my sled is a reliable 600cc 120HP on pump gas cut it in half to 300cc PV motor at around 60HP in the can am frame and I may have to BRP powerplants in the garage!

The BRP E-tech sled motor is sick very responsive 20-27mpg (compared to my other doo 600HO at about 12MPG) the motor even summerizes itself so it can sit in the garage just like the boat motors winterize. Emissions is on par with the heavy 4pokes also.

I do see even BRP putting lots of effort into performance 4strokes too so only time will tell!

I'd say if it will happen again it would be a Can Am or KTM quad.

ALL I CAN SAY IS NEW TECHNOLOGY =$$$$
 

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Even IF 2 stroke quads come back to production,it will be a hard sell since the negative stigma of a 2 smoke machine is gonna be a HUGE challenge to overcome by manufacturers due to years of bad publicity and propaganda that got ingrained in peoples minds. Not to mention having to CHANGE legislation in several states and lobbying the feds for even a chance to reintroduce their machines which means new guidelines and several years of testing which costs a lot of money.

So its not just the cost of R&D for building a quad but the above mentioned that these manufacturers face which IMO will probably cost more than the actual build of the quad.

Is it worth it ..... hell yeah, at least for us die hard fans :D
 
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