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Discussion Starter #1
i was contemplating the idea of make some plus 2 or plus 3 arms for my trx250r. the only thing is i want it wider and not want to move it forward like a +2 +1 kit. i think i would base them off the stock arms and incorporate better materials. i plan to use 4130 chromo of the same thickness and size as stock. just i want my 250 to be a bit wider and i dont want to dump 2000 dollars on a kit when i think i could make a simple one for way less and uise the things i have lying around. i know this could be dangerous but i have plenty of mentors to guide me and i would like to start a project like this because it seems to be simple enough and not as complex as teh sand rail me and my pops are building.what measurements wopuld i need to take into consideration and what ball joints or heims would you guys recomend? thansk and this again is for a senior project which is required for me to graduate and this seems like a more tangable thing todo than try to build another sand rial by myself.
 

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+2 arms with 3:2 wheels will put you at around 49 inches. if your run +3 arms youll need to use 4:1 wheels to make the legal 50" limit. heims would be the easiest to use since you would just need to weld in a threaded insert. however they do not last long. i would recommend using ball joints for the spindle side and heims for the frame side. even though they will wear out faster than bushings, things will not have to be perfectly square. if you have some variations you can easily adjust them out with the heims. you will still have to re-do your shocks if your adding either +2 or +3 arms.
 

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That's odd. My R measured 42" when it was stock, and now 48" with +3 +1 arms. Stock rims at 3-2. AND...I'm running Fullflight Racing arms, which use heims all around. A full season later, they're still like new. I do, however, keep them very clean and well lubricated with Teflon spray to make tham last as long as possible. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
sweet. i thought you guys would be like no dont do it you will kill your self!! but its cool that you guys will help me out. so hiems would be easier to set up than ball joints and bushings? hmmm. i only use my quad in the sand so that could be a possible solution. i have like 3 pairs of lt shocks that i got in a parts raid. one pair are works shocks other pair are 450r shocks and the other ones i do not know. and would sarting with a jig based on the stock arms be a good idea or bad?
 

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^^well if you have stock wheels, stock wheels are 4.5:1.5 so that would make it narrower.
i had arms previously that were heims at all 6 points i had to replace them every season which added up to $120 ball joints at the spindles would still be simple enough to use and they would last much much longer.

you could base your jig loosely on your stock arms, but remember your shock mount needs to stay the same distance from the frame. so your adding 2-3 inches on the spindle side of the shock mount. extrapolate your arms out 3 inches, and see where and how the two lines intersect.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
yeah i have the stock and offset wheels. i am usin the ofset oes right now not sure how much offset they are wide though. so i have to keep the shocks were they are at stock? so build the mounts in the same place just extend everything past the shock mount? well this is very good information thanks alot you guys.
 

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If you need them I can get pictures of +1, +2, +3 all beside stock arms so you get the idea.

Where do you plan on getting the chromoly for it? A good thing to do before you make them is
look at ALL the different style a-arms from the different manufacturers and come up with something
you can make easiest. The Laeger balljoints and bushing style is probably the easiest. Or you could
go with a complete stock size bushing for the frame and run DELRIN bushings.

Good luck and let us know how it goes and what the total cost is. I've heard Chromoly tube is only $8/foot.
 

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^^well if you have stock wheels, stock wheels are 4.5:1.5 so that would make it narrower.
i had arms previously that were heims at all 6 points i had to replace them every season which added up to 0 ball joints at the spindles would still be simple enough to use and they would last much much longer.

you could base your jig loosely on your stock arms, but remember your shock mount needs to stay the same distance from the frame. so your adding 2-3 inches on the spindle side of the shock mount. extrapolate your arms out 3 inches, and see where and how the two lines intersect.
Stock Honda wheels are 10x5.5, 4+1.5.
 

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Stock Honda wheels are 10x5.5, 4+1.5.

Really? Hmmm. I'll have to measure it with the 3:2 wheels that are on it now then. Doug Ult Blt beadlocks. Think it'll be 50?
 

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Well sum-bitch. Look at that.

50"

Good call guys. Does that mean I'm "owned"? :huh: LOL!!!
 

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Wait a minute...I'm not owned. I proved my point! 3:2 offset with +3 arms = 50" width. SWEET!!! LMAO!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you need them I can get pictures of +1, +2, +3 all beside stock arms so you get the idea.

Where do you plan on getting the chromoly for it? A good thing to do before you make them is
look at ALL the different style a-arms from the different manufacturers and come up with something
you can make easiest. The Laeger balljoints and bushing style is probably the easiest. Or you could
go with a complete stock size bushing for the frame and run DELRIN bushings.

Good luck and let us know how it goes and what the total cost is. I've heard Chromoly tube is only /foot.

yeah if you can get some picks of all three that would be cool. i think the place im going to get it at is something spruce not sure but we use it for our rail chromo. and you guys think i can spend less then a grand and get it right? or probaly not? and i was wondering when they say +2 are the top and bottom arns extened exactly two inches or is there some weirrd trickery going on here? thanks alot though.
 

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I would use the new laeger style ball joints. JD, JB, Alba, Houser, and others also use them. They are inexpensive, strong, and all sealed up. The open style ball joints and heims are a pain to keep clean and lubed. The most important thing when making arms will be the castor. If you put heims on the upper a-arm pivots, then you can adjust the castor. If you just put bushings on the upper pivots, then you will have to have the castor pre-set in your jigs. Castor will greatly affect the handling and it needs to be right.
 

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i should hope that you can make these for substantially under a grand. like probably $250 ish with mistakes. if it costs you a grand to four arms with tubing that costs $4 a foot and $100 of ball joints, bushings, and heims. your goofed a lot. ;) im with michael on the use of heims for the uppers, but i would also recommend them on the lowers too. for this reason. ideally an a-arm only has heims on the tops, or not at all. however since these will be the first set of arms you make, and its likely they wont be perfect. heims top and bottom offer basically unlimited adjustment. if your dont get something quite square on your arms you can adjust it out with heims top and bottom, if your frame isnt perfect you can adjust that out. its going to be much easier for you to get a functioning set of arms your first try using heims.
 

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Walsh used to use heims on the inboard pivots for the top and bottom on mx arms. They were able to adjust for wheelbase that way using different length spacers to move the heim farther forward or back.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
well im a big guy and i like to air out my 250 sometimes in the dunes so hopefully they are strong. and i think the top ones will have castor and the bottom will be bushings. can you guys give me some links to those heims and ball joints? but i might make the caster built in to the top because this needs to be challenging for me. and after talking to my mentors does any one mind bieng my mentor?? because my mentors are more old school and dont bother with precision. and i would like to have a mentor that has some knowledge in suspension's and what not. the only thing they would do is give me information and help me along and in the end sign a paper or too after the criterian has been meet. i think all they sign is saying that i have spent a certain amount of hours talking with them and stuff and then they put there info incase they need to contact them. nothing incriminating its just a school project that i need to do to graduate. so any help is cool. and any place where i can get those pics?
 

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you can build in caster on the uppers, but its nice to have them adjustable. caster affects the speed of your steering, some people like it faster or slower than others, if its easily adjustable you can customize your arms to your prefrence and the conditions.
 

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I agree with the choice of heims my old frame was a little tweaked but with the heim joints it was easily adjusted and riding I could never tell.

I also would suggest buying a used set of extended arms then make your own jig using the purchased arms but changing the things you'd like to. Then just resell the arms you purchased. That way soomeone else has done much of the test and tune over the past 20years!

I like LSR arms myself.
 
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