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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Glad you got ahold of him. Im surprised that he says that it wouldn't have the low end power. But hey things have changed in the past couple years since I started running my setup. My guess is you will be happy no matter what route you go. I know Arlan has delivered every time I have worked with him. Keep us posted which direction you go.
I was surprised as well, but I realize what a legendary builder he is, so definitely value his knowledge, as well as that of a successful racer who's run many different setups, such as yourself. One thing is for sure. After speaking with Arlan & Pete, I'd have no concerns giving either of them my hard earned $ for whatever setup I end up deciding on... & They both were super friendly & helpful + gave me a good amount of their time.
 

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Not trying to be a smartass here, but you know what makes good bottom for the woods? Stock.
Depends on what you want to do. Your not going to keep up in a higher class against todays 450s without some serious engine upgrades. Stock 250r has very little bottom end power compared to the modern big bore cylinder options.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Not trying to be a smartass here, but you know what makes good bottom for the woods? Stock.
[/QUOTE
Depends on what you want to do. Your not going to keep up in a higher class against todays 450s without some serious engine upgrades. Stock 250r has very little bottom end power compared to the modern big bore cylinder options.
If I were 150lbs & used to riding a CR125 instead of CR500, then sure... Unfortunately however, those days are about 30 years behind me now.
 

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New 250r owner here looking for some advice on what direction to go with an engine build. This is a long-winded post, so I will say, my main question is contained in the second paragraph. The rest of this is just supporting information for those interested in knowing why I'm looking for the type of build I am, specifically.

I'm wanting advice on options for a GNCC/XC type setup with a very broad powerband, & an emphasis on low/midrange much more so than top end. I have one odd requirement in that I need the build to run on either 92 octane pump, or 100LL AVGas (100 octane), as where I live (far Northern California), race gas is unavailable for purchase within a 170 mile radius. For that reason alone, I'd love to do a lower compression build for 91-95 octane if possible - but that's not an absolute requirement at all.

I've spent hours reading countless threads online, but have found that 90% of people's builds are more suited for dunes/desert high rpm builds, unsuitable for my application, which is why I've started this thread.

A little more about myself, my riding area, & what I'm looking for out of this machine:

I ride mostly Pacific Northwest style slow, steep, technical trails mostly, which is why a very broad powerband & a ton of low end torque is desired rather than the usual high strung screaming top end sand builds that seem so common. Some might say "you don't need a huge big bore or tons of power for that." Being a pretty experienced rider & a power junkie to boot, I tend to disagree strongly with that statement in most cases.

I ride primarily big bore 2 strokes. CR500s. I'm also 220lbs. Having ridden those bikes for so long, I tend to short shift a lot & rely on the low & mid range to carry me through slow, technical sections. For reference, the broad power curve of a CR500 is exactly what I'm looking with this build. Obviously, I realize getting CR500 power levels & delivery on a 250r is not a simple task, but that's the ultimate target.

My machine currently has a CT ported cylinder with 38mm PWK AS, I THINK a CT national pipe & silencer, & a high compression head cut, running around 215psi compression & 100LL AVGas. Supposedly bored to or around 270cc according to the previous owner. This engine combo runs great, but is nowhere near the low end power levels I'm looking for. It's actually fairly dead on the bottom & pulls hard out of the upper mid range, which seems odd if my pipe is indeed the CT "National" as I believe it to be.

I've contacted LED, ESR, & CT & asked their thoughts. Arlan recommended his Puma 430 setup & said 100 octane is the absolute minimum on any engines he builds - no pump gas. Eddie recommended the 330 kit for pump gas, but simply told me he's out of cylinders, so no engine packages are available anyway. Allen recommended his 350 powervalve setup with 2 head domes (one for pump & one for 100 octane) & said that will check all my boxes. He also elaborated to say he used to offer a 410 kit but he stopped because they were very hard on our 30 year old transmissions & said he has the option of offering the Puma setups, but he doesn't because he does not like the power curve.

The build I've seen at least in videos that really caught my attention is a guy Justin Sturgill Trucking on YouTube. His bike has a 379 CEO setup built by Arlan & has very broad torque according to Justin & another YouTuber who rode it, Michael Sabo. I mentioned that build to Arlan when contacting him, but he still recommended the Puma 430 over that build, for my needs.

I certainly trust these guy's opinions on what would be most suitable for me, but with the variance in recommendations, specifically Arlan recommending Puma but Allen saying he doesn't care for the power curve + recommending against massive big bores vs my old transmission, I'm kind of still left scratching my head....

If any of you guys have been down this path, or simply could provide feedback on your build, different engine combos you've ridden, or other options even, would be greatly appreciated.
New 250r owner here looking for some advice on what direction to go with an engine build. This is a long-winded post, so I will say, my main question is contained in the second paragraph. The rest of this is just supporting information for those interested in knowing why I'm looking for the type of build I am, specifically.

I'm wanting advice on options for a GNCC/XC type setup with a very broad powerband, & an emphasis on low/midrange much more so than top end. I have one odd requirement in that I need the build to run on either 92 octane pump, or 100LL AVGas (100 octane), as where I live (far Northern California), race gas is unavailable for purchase within a 170 mile radius. For that reason alone, I'd love to do a lower compression build for 91-95 octane if possible - but that's not an absolute requirement at all.

I've spent hours reading countless threads online, but have found that 90% of people's builds are more suited for dunes/desert high rpm builds, unsuitable for my application, which is why I've started this thread.

A little more about myself, my riding area, & what I'm looking for out of this machine:

I ride mostly Pacific Northwest style slow, steep, technical trails mostly, which is why a very broad powerband & a ton of low end torque is desired rather than the usual high strung screaming top end sand builds that seem so common. Some might say "you don't need a huge big bore or tons of power for that." Being a pretty experienced rider & a power junkie to boot, I tend to disagree strongly with that statement in most cases.

I ride primarily big bore 2 strokes. CR500s. I'm also 220lbs. Having ridden those bikes for so long, I tend to short shift a lot & rely on the low & mid range to carry me through slow, technical sections. For reference, the broad power curve of a CR500 is exactly what I'm looking with this build. Obviously, I realize getting CR500 power levels & delivery on a 250r is not a simple task, but that's the ultimate target.

My machine currently has a CT ported cylinder with 38mm PWK AS, I THINK a CT national pipe & silencer, & a high compression head cut, running around 215psi compression & 100LL AVGas. Supposedly bored to or around 270cc according to the previous owner. This engine combo runs great, but is nowhere near the low end power levels I'm looking for. It's actually fairly dead on the bottom & pulls hard out of the upper mid range, which seems odd if my pipe is indeed the CT "National" as I believe it to be.

I've contacted LED, ESR, & CT & asked their thoughts. Arlan recommended his Puma 430 setup & said 100 octane is the absolute minimum on any engines he builds - no pump gas. Eddie recommended the 330 kit for pump gas, but simply told me he's out of cylinders, so no engine packages are available anyway. Allen recommended his 350 powervalve setup with 2 head domes (one for pump & one for 100 octane) & said that will check all my boxes. He also elaborated to say he used to offer a 410 kit but he stopped because they were very hard on our 30 year old transmissions & said he has the option of offering the Puma setups, but he doesn't because he does not like the power curve.

The build I've seen at least in videos that really caught my attention is a guy Justin Sturgill Trucking on YouTube. His bike has a 379 CEO setup built by Arlan & has very broad torque according to Justin & another YouTuber who rode it, Michael Sabo. I mentioned that build to Arlan when contacting him, but he still recommended the Puma 430 over that build, for my needs.

I certainly trust these guy's opinions on what would be most suitable for me, but with the variance in recommendations, specifically Arlan recommending Puma but Allen saying he doesn't care for the power curve + recommending against massive big bores vs my old transmission, I'm kind of still left scratching my head....

If any of you guys have been down this path, or simply could provide feedback on your build, different engine combos you've ridden, or other options even, would be greatly appreciated.
Dirt wheels magazine march 2021. Check it out
 

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Unfortunately I don't have a subscription... But are you referring to the Laegers 250r build in there? I was able to look up the contents but couldn't find anything further than that without a subscription...
Ya. It was a great build.

Hopefully this will have the full article. Hold down in it and tap chrome.
 
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