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Thread: Bore or Stroke?

  1. #31
    Senior Member etccb's Avatar
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    "There is no replacement for displacement."
    There is something to this ol saying and that is why this forum is overwelmingly loaded with different types of BB builds. Consider the investment costs of doing a build with a oem 250-265-etc cyl with bore, piston kit, gasket kit and head work vs a bigger cyl kit, both along with the stroker crank of choice.
    Last edited by etccb; 06-03-2013 at 10:57 AM.
    rsss396 and 86honda250 like this.

  2. #32
    Supporting Vendor acecarlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by etccb View Post
    "There is no replacement for displacement."
    There is something to this ol saying and that is why this forum is overwelmingly loaded with different types of BB builds. Consider the investment costs of doing a build with a oem 250-265-etc cyl with bore, piston kit, gasket kit and head work vs a bigger cyl kit, both along with the stroker crank of choice.
    True to an extent, yet not always. A few examples are a 200R will run with a 250R, as Freddie Conover and a few pro's proved more than once back in the day. A well set-up OEM cylinder will be a lot of BB 310's and even some bigger BB's, happens all the time. A <500CC Saber holds the record for sand Drags, not a 530CC or 560CC, bigger is not always better. Reliabilty is a real determining factor IMO when dealing with an aftermarket 310 (really a 293CC) verses a 265CC OEM cylinder...to this day, the best cylinders as far as reliabilty are the Honda OEM's + the CP Industries line of Sphynx, Puma and Saber.

    IMO you need to consider all options YES, however; don't count the OEM cylinder out as a top runner when looking at small BB aftermarket cylinder kits.

    Carlos
    BDT MOTORSPORTS 909-466-9152 M-F 9:00 AM to 6 PM, Saturday 10 AM to 4:30 PM. Visit our Web Site at WWW.BDTMOTORSPORTS.COM or email: BDTMOTORSPORTS@YAHOO.COM 'SIMPLY THE BEST' BDT MOTORSPORTS'

  3. #33
    Senior Member etccb's Avatar
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    At a resent outdoor national Ken Roczen had the fastest qualifing times of the day on his 250. His 250 though is no 450. At the gp's there is this italian guy (Yes I know it's ac) that gets around the track rather fast on a 350, that again has less hp then the 450 by the same manu. KTM will not be putting out adds this week with claims about Roczens 250 being equal to the 450's. Everyone knows how a 250(450) runs vs a 125(250). Put the 200 in the middle and there would be tracks, but lets not say that Ken roczen was on the fastest or even close to equal to the fastest bike on the track.

    Winning a mickey thompson race can be very overrated by those that KNOW. The races were simi inverted to put on a show for the fans with the fastest riders from qualifing etc not starting up front. As part of this entertainment system to help please the top racers and teams the MTEG awarded passing points that would go toward the championship, but of coarse the night's results were scored at the finish line and not by the top points man of the event. The tracks were very often very tacky to keep the dust down in the stadium for the high hp trucks. This added to the often one line tracks and made any passing of someone very difficult especially on a 3 wheeler where you need less sidebite then a quad to really race around a given track. I have attended many mteg races, but I was not at the one that freddie won after being at the front after turn one.

    If your builder will sit down at their porting bench with a game plan, and on that bench in front of them is an oem 265 cyl and a 310 cyl they should be able to meet that game plan better with the 310 (293).

    Of note in this thread is that as the op thinks about what he wants to do he can look beyond a 310 kit to decide.
    Last edited by etccb; 06-03-2013 at 01:05 PM.

  4. #34
    Supporting Vendor acecarlos's Avatar
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    Let's not diminish Freddie's win or for that matter ANY other riders accomplishment just because you may think you are in the "KNOW"..."overrated", you really said that? Unbeliveable...!

    Anyways, to each his on opinion, however; many OEM cylinder users, both on and off this forum will tel you how their OEM cylinders out performed many BB engines, specially 310's. This is NO fluke, and again as I staed before, a well set-up Ported OEM cylinder will run very strong, and be extremly reliable, much more than the lower end cost aftermarket 310 kits...again IMO.

    OEM cylinders are just another option to look at when considering small bore BB's like the 310's.

    Carlos
    BDT MOTORSPORTS 909-466-9152 M-F 9:00 AM to 6 PM, Saturday 10 AM to 4:30 PM. Visit our Web Site at WWW.BDTMOTORSPORTS.COM or email: BDTMOTORSPORTS@YAHOO.COM 'SIMPLY THE BEST' BDT MOTORSPORTS'

  5. #35
    Senior Member etccb's Avatar
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    Yes I did say that a mteg win itself could be overrated. To attempt to make the members of this forum believe any different about how the mteg races worked, now that is something. Maybe some of the members could research this topic themselves before passing judgement on my or your opinion on this topic. Maybe ask a top old school pro on one of the old school trike forums and let us know their thoughts on what I posted. It is a far more then fair topic to discuss in an open forum without getting heated. Again as someone does some research make sure to research with unbiased people that were there in the mickey days and KNOW.
    I witnessed Gary Denton heated up a bit after a mteg round about this topic. I don't remember the exact year or track but you could get close enough to the impound area chain link when leaving the stadium.
    I was an extreame atvquadraceaholic back then.
    Last edited by etccb; 06-03-2013 at 01:55 PM.

  6. #36
    Senior Member douglas's Avatar
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    And the fire burns brighter

  7. #37
    Supporting Vendor acecarlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by etccb View Post
    Yes I did say that a mteg win itself could be overrated. To attempt to make the members of this forum believe any different about how the mteg races worked, now that is something. Maybe some of the members could research this topic themselves before passing judgement on my or your opinion on this topic. Maybe ask a top old school pro on one of the old school trike forums and let us know their thoughts on what I posted. It is a far more then fair topic to discuss in an open forum without getting heated. Again as someone does some research make sure to research with unbiased people that were there in the mickey days and KNOW.
    I witnessed Gary Denton heated up a bit after a mteg round about this topic. I don't remember the exact year or track but you could get close enough to the impound area chain link when leaving the stadium.
    I was an extreame atvquadraceaholic back then.
    I am quite familiar with the race formats run back then, still when a 200R can run with a studded 250R Pro field, coming from the back of the back, proves a smaller CC engine can run with a larger one, at least for this race. IMO; this is a major accomplishment for Freddie and the 200R.

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    And the fire burns brighter
    Just a friendly discussion, one that gives us a few options to consider....no fuel to the fire.

    Carlos
    BDT MOTORSPORTS 909-466-9152 M-F 9:00 AM to 6 PM, Saturday 10 AM to 4:30 PM. Visit our Web Site at WWW.BDTMOTORSPORTS.COM or email: BDTMOTORSPORTS@YAHOO.COM 'SIMPLY THE BEST' BDT MOTORSPORTS'

  8. #38
    Senior Member atv fan 28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by acecarlos View Post
    True to an extent, yet not always. A few examples are a 200R will run with a 250R, as Freddie Conover and a few pro's proved more than once back in the day. A well set-up OEM cylinder will be a lot of BB 310's and even some bigger BB's, happens all the time. A <500CC Saber holds the record for sand Drags, not a 530CC or 560CC, bigger is not always better. Reliabilty is a real determining factor IMO when dealing with an aftermarket 310 (really a 293CC) verses a 265CC OEM cylinder...to this day, the best cylinders as far as reliabilty are the Honda OEM's + the CP Industries line of Sphynx, Puma and Saber.

    IMO you need to consider all options YES, however; don't count the OEM cylinder out as a top runner when looking at small BB aftermarket cylinder kits.

    Carlos
    just curious on what Saber holds that record? and what times?
    88 250R C-Leigh Racing Pro-X 6mil
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    250Rs...Its not a addiction, its therapy!!


  9. #39
    Supporting Vendor acecarlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atv fan 28 View Post
    just curious on what Saber holds that record? and what times?
    Not sure what or whose Saber holds the single Sand 300' Drag record, however; I understand it is a Saber <500CC...?

    Carlos
    BDT MOTORSPORTS 909-466-9152 M-F 9:00 AM to 6 PM, Saturday 10 AM to 4:30 PM. Visit our Web Site at WWW.BDTMOTORSPORTS.COM or email: BDTMOTORSPORTS@YAHOO.COM 'SIMPLY THE BEST' BDT MOTORSPORTS'

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by acecarlos View Post
    Let's not diminish Freddie's win or for that matter ANY other riders accomplishment just because you may think you are in the "KNOW"..."overrated", you really said that? Unbeliveable...!

    Carlos
    Not to take anything away from Fred and his win but, how long are you going to live off that one race? It was over 25 years ago. And lets be honest, it was not a field of the top pros back then.

    I would be more impressed if you show us how well they run at Ashtabula this year. You are still coming right?


 
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